tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5175595758027993342024-02-18T21:31:26.137-08:00Creation - Evolution - Atheism And Everything Else...Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.comBlogger122125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-16144698837430259672010-09-26T18:15:00.001-07:002010-09-26T18:15:47.384-07:00Evolutionists Stuck With The Chicken And The Egg Problem........AgainMelipona Bee Defies Evolution<br />
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<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7DV7TS3XB94?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7DV7TS3XB94?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-57661664257830537762010-08-07T00:21:00.000-07:002010-08-07T00:21:14.598-07:00Proving The Existence Of A Designer With Math And Physics<div style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px;">I came across some videos that shed some good light on this intense debate about the origins of life. Enjoy, and I pray they enlighten the senses so that you realize that it's <span class="J-JK9eJ-PJVNOc" style="-webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-color: yellow; background-image: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial;">ok</span> to go where the data leads you. God is a good God, and he has made this world in a way so that we can understand it as well as himself. We have rational minds to comprehend all of this data. If the world was a product of evolution then we would expect to see irrationality and chaos all over. However, the contrary stands. We see order, rationality and we can understand the information being portrayed in all that we see. God is not a puppeteer playing games with you so that you have to figure it all out. He has revealed himself in the scriptures and is at the door knocking now waiting patiently for you to open it and let him in. He says "I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation" (2 Cor 6:2)</div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Physics Prove The Existence of God (On A Razor's Edge)</span><br />
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<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: x-large;">Mathematical proof for Intelligent Design</span><br />
<object height="385" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/azMgKrkJ5lA&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/azMgKrkJ5lA&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-41834082309705325092010-07-18T01:53:00.000-07:002010-07-18T01:53:12.685-07:00The Evolution Of Fish<object height="385" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/V0sOqL4XBig&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/V0sOqL4XBig&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-32880250051196531502010-07-18T01:41:00.001-07:002010-07-18T01:41:36.120-07:00Evolutionary Assumptions - Life from dead chemicals?<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/O1fteDkXLBE&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/O1fteDkXLBE&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-61878391499935757132010-07-18T01:38:00.001-07:002010-07-18T01:38:46.361-07:00The Woodpecker's Special Equipment Beak, Feet, Tail, Skull<object height="385" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/03_tKoTTf4M&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/03_tKoTTf4M&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-19634742960658406642010-04-08T00:10:00.000-07:002010-04-08T00:11:44.378-07:005 Questions Every Atheist MUST AnswerI think these are fair and intelligent questions which I rarely hear answered. I can only think of a handful of people who have attempted to answer them in a few debates I have listened to. They usually claim it's a societal thing. But I think the video calls that notion into account as well. What do you think? How can Atheism account for such things?<br /><object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cTYe_V2hOZ4&hl=en_US&fs=1&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cTYe_V2hOZ4&hl=en_US&fs=1&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-59748909788710230922010-03-28T01:26:00.000-07:002010-03-28T01:26:38.828-07:00The "Just So" Universe - Fine Tuned For You And MeLee Strobel once again pointing to how the universe has a certain "just so" element to it which subsequently causes it to support life on our earth, the only planet we know today which supports it. It's no wonder that it is said that mathematics is the language of the universe. There are so many constants in place that this flies in the face of a random universe just coming into play. It is as though the Universe has been fine tuned for us. While scripture makes it clear that we need faith to please God one can believe in him solely on the evidence alone. This is why I am a Christian, because of the evidence I find when I look at Archeology, Astronomy, Biology and History. They all point to the Creator. The only thing that separates us on the subject is due to our presuppositions. Enjoy the video and note the constants and the precision which is needed to support life on our planet that if even one element is slightly altered, life on earth would be impossible. It takes a great deal of faith to believe that something like this occurred by chance and random processes.<br />
<object height="385" width="480"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wXyJwv2-gOQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wXyJwv2-gOQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com4tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-10384880628708582512010-03-22T17:38:00.000-07:002010-03-22T19:30:45.228-07:00Conviction - Way Of The Master Style<span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Its</span> been a while since I have done any postings on evangelism. Here is another one of Ray Comfort's interviews with a young man named Michael. I can't stress how important it is today in our evangelistic efforts to stress the law (10 commandments) in evangelism. It is important because the law, though it doesn't save a man if he keeps it alone, it points man to his sin and consequently his need for a Savior. <div><br /></div><div>In an excerpt from another site this is what many of our founding faithful theologians said regarding the law:</div><div><br /></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" ;font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:medium;"><p>Was Martin Luther said, "The first duty of the Gospel preacher is to declare God's Law and show the nature of sin, because it will act as a schoolmaster and bring him to everlasting life which is in Jesus Christ." </p><p>John Wesley said, "Before I preach love, mercy and grace, I must preach sin, Law and judgment." Wesley later advised a friend, "Preach 90 percent Law and 10 percent grace." </p><p>Charles <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">Spurgeon</span>, who is known as the "Prince of Preachers," said, "They will never accept grace until they tremble before a just and holy Law." </p><p>Charles <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">Finney</span> who is labeled as having an 80 percent success rate in his ministry said, "Evermore the Law must prepare the way for the Gospel; to overlook this in instructing souls is almost certain to result in false hope, the introduction of a false standard of Christian experience, and to fill the church with false converts." </p><p>John Wycliffe, the "Morning Star of the Reformation" said , "The highest service to which a man may attain on earth is to preach the Law of God." </p><p>D.L. Moody, who is credited with having over one million disciples for the Lord, put it in perspective when he said, "God being a perfect God, had to give a perfect Law, and the Law was given not to save men, but to measure them."</p><p>If we were to ask the Apostle Paul why the Law was given and if it had any effect on the world today, the Scriptural Text gives us his answers. We would expect to receive the same answer he gave to the Romans "that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God" [Romans 3:19]. </p><p>The most significant tribute to God's Law comes from the Saviour when He said, whosoever does and teaches the Law will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven [Matthew 5:19]. The sad truth is that since the turn of the century, various new ideas have been substituted for the teaching of God's Law and standard in Christendom to the extent that Mr. <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">Finney's</span> above three areas of warning concerning the Law have been self-fulfilling.</p></span></div><object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a6uIQMt6fu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a6uIQMt6fu0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-65162632422742604702010-02-20T21:55:00.000-08:002010-03-27T22:39:39.286-07:00Debate: Joe Sirianni vs Pedro Pequeno On The Big Bang Theory And The Days Of CreationA few weeks back my good friend Pedro and I somehow began debating via <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Facebook</span> over the Big Bang theory and the first six days of creation. Pedro and I both profess Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and consider ourselves to be of the Christian faith. In addition to this, Pedro and I are associated by family, as I am married to his cousin and I have the utmost respect for him and find him to always be about the welfare of others, including myself. And though I do not agree with some of his views it was great to show both sides of this topic and have this exchange with him. I figured I would post the thread in it's entirety for everyone to read on the blog and conclude for themselves what the bible teaches on the subject. A little background on what Pedro and I believe before you read over the debate. <br />
<div><br />
</div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="text-decoration: underline;">Pedro</span></b>: holds that the six days of creation are long periods of time (<a href="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c003.html">Gap Theory</a>), which in essence teaches that these are most likely millions of years and that God used/guided the process of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroevolution">macro evolution</a> to bring about His creation. He also holds that the Big Bang is true and that it was God's initial start of the creation process.</div><div><br />
</div><div><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="text-decoration: underline;">Joe</span></b>: holds to a <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/did-jesus-say-he-created-in-six-days">literal six 24 hr day</a> for each of the six days mentioned in the Genesis creation account. He also holds that the word for day <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/why-christians-shouldnt-accept-millions">"<span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">yom</span>"</a> in the Hebrew and in it's proper context is the same word used throughout scripture for the common use of the word which means an <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/overheads/pages/oh20020208_104.asp">ordinary day</a>. He also believes that the <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/wow/does-the-big-bang-fit">Big Bang is scientifically inaccurate</a> based on evidences contrary to it and <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/young-age-evidence">evidences for a young earth</a>. In addition, he holds that this view is contrary to scripture and God's account of His creation in the book of Genesis and therefore, can't be integrated or reconciled.</div><div><br />
</div><div>Here is the debate word for word:</div><div><br />
</div><div>My initial comment - </div><div><br />
</div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px;"></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px;"><div class="UIIntentionalStory_Header"><h3 class="UIIntentionalStory_Message" ft="{"type":"msg"}" style="font-size: 13px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><span class="UIIntentionalStory_Names" ft="{"type":"name"}"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141&ref=mf" onclick="ft("4:9:63:1129763141:59581449033::0:::1311477943586:::9:1:9:0");" style="cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #33ffff;">Joseph <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">Sirianni</span></span></a><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #33ffff;"> </span></span><span class="UIStory_Message"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #33ffff;">I was once having a discussion with an agnostic evolutionist and asked him if he thought out of a million or more attempts at blasting a large pile of rocks what were my chances of producing the exact structure and beauty of the <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">Taj</span> <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_4">Mahal</span>? He laughed and said probably never. I said exactly. Because chaos can never pro</span><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #33ffff;"><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_5">duce</span> order right? Seemed logical enough to us. Yet he would not for one second hold to the same logic when it came to the big bang. How can a dot the size of a period at the end of a sentence appear from nothing in space (and where did the empty space come from for that matter?) Then blow up (chaos) and produce the complex, orderly and rational (the universe exhibits rationality) universe that we observe today? Doesn't seem logical to me let alone scientific.</span></span></span></h3></div><form action="http://www.facebook.com/ajax/ufi/modify.php" ajaxify="1" class="commentable_item one_row_add_box autoexpand_mode comment_form_1311477943586" id="commentable_item_1184859629_1311477943586" method="POST" name="add_comment" style="margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"><span class="UIActionLinks UIActionLinks_bottom UIIntentionalStory_Info" style="clear: left; color: #999999; display: block; margin-top: 3px; min-height: 16px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-size: 11px;"></span></span><br />
<span class="UIActionLinks UIActionLinks_bottom UIIntentionalStory_Info" style="clear: left; color: #999999; display: block; margin-top: 3px; min-height: 16px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-size: 11px;"><div class="ufi_section comment_262370 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_1822925318_1311477943586_262370" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-size: 11px;"></span><br />
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: #333333; font-size: 11px;"><div class="ufi_section comment_262370 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262370" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 26 at 11:49pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262370]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262396 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262396" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d284b35bd2a03" style="display: inline;">Science is probably right about the big bang. The evidence is all over the place. Where they are wrong is that it was a random event. Think about it. Who has the power to create the entire universe from a spec the size of a needle head. God!!!! What science sees as the big bang is really the handy work of God himself. Let's not deny God the praise for such a marvelous creation... the big bang itself.</div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 12:25am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262396]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262399 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262399" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d2d5b6f7a27c3" style="display: inline;">Well now the only problem with that outlook is that its a contradiction to<br />
Gods own account himself in Gen. The Big Bang "theory" teaches that the Sun<br />
and stars were made first and the bible teaches that the Earth was created before the stars. BB teaches that plants formed after the sun formed but the bible teaches that plants were created a few hours before the sun. BB<br />
teaches that the sun formed before the earth did, but the bible teaches that<br />
the sun was created on the fourth day after the earth (God was their light<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
as is stated in Rev.) BB teaches the sun formed from older stars but the<br />
bible teaches that the sun, moon and stars were created at the same time.<br />
And to further validate all of this, Jesus himself quotes the old testament/Genesis as accurate literal understandable history in the new testament to his disciples and other followers</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 12:36am via <a href="http://www.facebook.com/ajax/mobile/email_reply_explanation.php" rel="dialog" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Email Reply</a> · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262399]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262401 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262401" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d335861573168" style="display: inline;">No argument there. I agree. I just don't agree with "how" you say he did<br />
it. He told us how he did it plainly in the scriptures. He "created" them<br />
male and female in the "beginning" of creation. I don't think people have<br />
to give up their belief in the sciences to believe in the creation message. There is no need to attempt to integrate evolution into the bible.</div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 12:40am via <a href="http://www.facebook.com/ajax/mobile/email_reply_explanation.php" rel="dialog" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Email Reply</a> · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262401]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262404 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262404" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d3812654bef8f" style="display: inline;">Come to think of it, if the evidence fit and the two could be integrated/compatible (bible, the creation account by God himself as a<br />
witness who was there with evolution) I would have no problem adopting the theory as one of God's means to bringing about his creation. The only<br />
problem I have which prevents me from doing so is that they contradict each other so gosh darn much :)</div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 12:43am via <a href="http://www.facebook.com/ajax/mobile/email_reply_explanation.php" rel="dialog" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;">Email Reply</a> · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262404]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262791 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262791" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d4b9b75870a05" style="display: inline;">Your view of science shouldn<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;">’t be so blank and white. Science is like a blind man who can feel the evidence but cannot see it. Try putting a foreign object in a blind man’s hands and ask them to tell you what it is and what it’s used for. The blind man will get some parts of his interpretation right and others wrong. He will however get his description of how it feels right most of the time. We shouldn’t discredit the blind man complete… he does have one sense that works perfectly find. We should view science in this same light. God did create the heavens and the earth. Science is a blind man who can detect and measure the evidence of it fairly accurately, but has to guest mate how it came to being. Whether you like to hear this or not, the truth is that the typical Christian is also a blind man… they can read God’s word in the Bible (so they have the means to interpret it), but they refuse to see the physical evidence as a means to gain a better understanding of the written word. So in essence, we are lead by two blind men’s interpretations which both refuse to work together. If we all open our eyes, there is so much to be gained and appreciated about God’s creation when we stop denying him the praise for all the evidence he has left us of his handy work. I find it sad that most Christians are losing out on this.</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 10:20am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262791]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_262827 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_262827" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d69b11abae8ec" style="display: inline;">If you step out of the box (the mainstream Christian interoperation), the word of God leaves plenty of room for the physical evidence that the big theory relies on. … the evidence that the entire universe originated from a single point the size of a needle head. Your evidence against it was Genesis 1:1-3 … here is one interpretation which does not<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;">contradict Gods word what so ever: “Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This was the moment of the big bang itself. This part of creation happened trillions of years prior to Day 1 of the rest of God’s creation. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts this point (except that we don't know exactly when it happened). ... Then starts God’s account of the rest of his creation in “Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.” In such a violent big bang event, we could understand why the earth lacked form and was empty. Then God starts his second phase of creation in “Genesis 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light," and there was light.” The sun itself was not created during the big bang… it was created during this second phase of God’s work. This would be completely consistent with both the Bible and science’s observations of how stars (suns) are created over time. One only has to step out of the box to see the truth and marvel at Gods work. God reveals this scientific evidence to humanity so we can praise him for it, not deny him of it.</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 27 at 10:53am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[262827]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_268687 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_268687" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d732f24e57934" style="display: inline;">As for the analogy I'm not sure it completely correlates with the scenario. I understand no man can ultimately know all of the truth all of the time, but we can know truth. We don't have to be "blind men" according to scripture. Jesus himself said "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free" this goes beyond the message of salvation. As far as the "physical evidence" for the big bang, we will never see eye to eye on this (believers and non) because of our "presuppositions". Evolutionist assume evolution to be true first and foremost (both stellar and macro evolution) so they will interpret the evidence based on that presupposition. Christians see the Gen account as God's witness account (which is compatible with modern day physics and science) of the creation. Physics show that a six day creation is possible (<a href="http://www.drdino.com/read-article.php?id=30" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.drdino.com/read<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>-article.php?id=30</a>)<br />
<br />
There is a major misunderstanding that Christians don't believe in science or don't accept modern science. This is extremely false and one of my biggest pet peeves. I love science! But you and I differ on what is called science. Man's speculation about the past (especially with humanistic and uniformitarianism as his guide) is not science. By it's very definition it is not observable, repeatable and you cannot demonstrate it. No one can know what happened here 20 billion years ago, no one. Christians build a "model" based on the Gen acct and what we see in modern science today. We don't even call it fact. Evo's see the Grand Canyon as taking millions of years to form and Christians see the evidence showing it was formed 4400 years ago in a rapid world wide flood. I absolutely do not use Gen 1:1-3 as "evidence against it" (big bang). Not sure where you got the impression. I don't use the bible to disprove it though it can be used for it. Modern day science itself disproves the theory of stellar evolution if anyone takes the time to study it. And not to mention the evidence for a young earth (such as the earth not reaching equilibrium yet) disproves a 4.5 billion year old earth. The evidence alone for that doesn't put over 30,000 years. You have many many obstacles in your path to account for that theory and it is extremely incompatible with scripture. I don't understand why believers or how for that matter they can integrate them.<br />
<br />
for just a fraction of those obstacles, check this out:<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/bigbang.html" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/m<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>i/dinosaurs/bigbang.html</a><br />
<br />
....and: The best evidence against the Big Bang is the existence of Polonium Halos.<br />
<br />
American physicist Robert V. Gentry's research shows that rocks known as Precambrian granites were created almost instantly as a part of the creation (as recorded in Genesis 1:1) and "are not the product of the evolution of the earth."<br />
<br />
He says "the Big Bang version of primordial polonium is without any scientific basis."<br />
<br />
“Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This was the moment of the big bang itself.<br />
<br />
How do you know that? How do you know that was the moment of the big bang? If you are arguing what happened before the days of creation, then I would never argue that. I would never dare to speculate what happened before the 1st day of creation. If one wants to say the earth has been sitting there for billions and billions of years then I'm not inclined to changed their minds. We just don't know. It very well could have been. The word in the Hebrew just means the earth was sitting "empty and void", formless. that's all. But if you're trying to show that each of the 6 days of creation in Gen are really millions of years each then you have a serious problem there. You will most certainly have a difficult time showing God did it this way using scripture which he himself inspired and gave to man. Is he not capable of making it easy for us to understand his word when it says: "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day" and when Moses and others say "for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day" and in Hebrews; "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work" The 7 days in Gen are an example given to us from God for how our week should be presented. Work for six like he did and rest on the seventh like he did. God doesn't need to "rest" as humans do, it was an example given for us. And for instance, you would have to ignore proper Hebrew grammar regarding the six day creation acct. In the Hebrew, whenever the word "day" (Yom in Hebrew) is used in conjunction with a number like the 1st or 2nd day etc... then it always means a literal 24 hr day. And in the Hebrew add "there was morning and evening" and it's God's way of saying how else can I get it across to you that these are ordinary days?<br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 30 at 9:07pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[268687]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_268688 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_268688" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d7dc41f19afa9" style="display: inline;">The following is an extract from a letter written in 1984 by Professor James Barr, who was at the time Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford. Please note that Professor Barr does not claim to believe that Genesis is literally true, he is just telling us, openly and honestly, what the language means.<br />
Professor Barr said,<br />
<br />
“Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Gen. 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah's flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the 'days' of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.”<br />
<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
. This part of creation happened trillions of years prior to Day 1 of the rest of God’s creation. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts this point (except that we don't know exactly when it happened). ...<br />
<br />
How can anyone know that? and yes more than you know contradicts this. I think you're not realizing that scripture interprets scripture. You need to leave Gen now and venture throughout all of scripture where there are dozens of more references to Gen and creation. Not just in Gen alone.<br />
<br />
And as the article states:<br />
<br />
"Now there are those who say that maybe God used the "big bang" to create the world.<br />
<br />
Well, God is God, and he can do anything he wants but scripture tells us that this is not how he created.<br />
<br />
God’s creation was one of order, not random processes.<br />
<br />
Those who try to reconcile the Big Bang with scripture do themselves and the Bible injustice. For the Creation account and the Big Bang differ greatly in the order of events"<br />
<br />
"The sun itself was not created during the big bang… it was created during this second phase of God’s work"<br />
<br />
Well this contradicts the big bang theory then, because it plainly teaches that all of the "stars" and all of matter came out of the big bang even though that contradicts the first law of thermo dynamics which states; "matter can neither be created nor destroyed"<br />
<br />
Good articles on the subject: Why God didn't use evolution to bring about his creation:<br />
<br />
‘He could have done it that way … couldn’t He?’ (Operation: Refuting Compromise (ORC))<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/us/newsletters/0204lead.asp" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/us/newsletters/0204l<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>ead.asp</a><br />
<br />
Why wouldn’t God use evolution?<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/feedback/2005/1223.asp" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/home/area/feedback/2<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>005/1223.asp</a><br />
<br />
Did the Creator use Evolution?<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v11/i2/evolution.asp" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/creation/v11/i2/evol<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>ution.asp</a><br />
<br />
What’s the problem with theistic evolution?<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/feedback/2005/0520.asp" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/Home/Area/feedback/2<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>005/0520.asp</a><br />
<br />
And as always........... I love you Pedro :)<br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 30 at 9:08pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[268688]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_268833 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_268833" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d8348510ba727" style="display: inline;">More evidence against the Big Bang Theory:<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/search/?q=big+bang&site=default_collection#q=big+bang&site=default_collection" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/search/?q=big+bang&s<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>ite=default_collection#q=b<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>ig+bang&site=default_colle<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>ction</a></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 30 at 11:01pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[268833]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_269418 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_269418" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d89dc3d46179b" style="display: inline;">First, let me just say thank you for presenting your points in a constructive manner. I was reluctant to post on this topic because I didn’t want things to go down the same path they did last time. I am really happy to see this change. Thank you.<br />
<br />
There are a couple things we can agree on which I don’t want people to miss in these long exchanges. Instead of spending time hashing out our differences, I’m just going to focus on what we can agree upon and leave our differences for some other time.<br />
<br />
First, we both agree that God is the creator. We only disagree on the method he used, or more accurately put, we disagree on the methods he couldn’t have used.<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
<br />
The second thing we agree on is that the Bible does not state when the Earth and Heavens (prior to Genesis 1:2) were created or how they were created. … and just to be absolutely clear, I am referring to the creation of the earth prior to the creation of life on it. This both Joe and I can clearly agree upon.<br />
<br />
Based on this, clearly we are free to *speculate* (yes, I agree that is all we can do) how the Earth and Heaven’s were created (prior to Genesis 1:2) based on scientific observations… and there is nothing wrong with doing this. So with this said, we can say that if a Christian hears that science has observed a pattern in space which suggests that all matter in space originated from a single point in space, they can accept it as a plausible scenario for Creation as long as they understand it does not include the things that God said he created after Genesis 1:1. They should however understand that while this observation is plausible, science has taken this single observation and extrapolated on it endlessly into an overall theory of the Big Bang, which contains many points that are not Biblical. As a result, Christians should not accept all the points of the Big Bang theory without close Biblical proofing… but yet, they can accept the single most important point observation of the Big Bang theory mentioned above as *plausible* and not contradictory to the Bible. This is something we can agree upon, correct? I know you did not say anything to the contrary in your posts above, so I am not trying to prove anything here you did not already say. I am just trying to bring absolute clarity to this point and the fact that we agree on it.<br />
<br />
We can also agree that the Bible does not specify *when* the Earth (without life) and Heavens were created (prior to Genesis 1:2). There again, we are free to *speculate* how long the Earth (without Life) and Heavens have been in existent (prior to Genesis 1:2) based on scientific observations and there is nothing wrong with doing this. Can we agree on this, correct? Again, you did not contradict this, so I am not trying to prove anything other than we agree on it.<br />
<br />
So with this said, we can say that if Christians hears that science has observed a number of things about the Earth which suggest it may be millions upon millions of years old, they can accept it as a *plausible* scenario for Creation as long as they understand it does not include the things that God said he created after Genesis 1:1. They should however understand that while this theory is plausible, they should understand that science has taken this and extrapolated on it endlessly into an overall theory of live on earth, which contains many points that are not Biblical. As a result, Christians should not accept all the points of science’s theories without close Biblical proofing… but yet, they can accept the single point (and significant point) that the Earth itself (excluding everything God created in Genesis 1:2 and beyond) *could* theoretically be millions and millions of years old. This includes things on earth like rocks, minerals, water, etc… there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts that these things could be millions upon millions of years old. Again, you did not contradict this, so I am not trying to prove anything other than we agree that this is *plausible* and that the Bible does not contradict science in this area.<br />
<br />
I have a feeling you’re going to think these points are insignificant and rather pointless; however, I think they are very significant. These points don’t prove much, but they do prove that Christians should not throw the baby out with the bath water (as they often do) when it comes to scientific theories. As I said, science is like a blind man. Even though the blind man’s overall theory about an object he’s holding may be very wrong, many of the fine details about how it feels to them will be right. Christians need to see science the same way… we should not just disregard a scientific theory as a whole, but instead dig deeper and see the details that aren’t contradictory to the Bible and hold them as plausible. … Once we do that, a whole new appreciation for God opens up… it also helps us connect with non-Christians on the topic of creation in a way that often closes the divide. This is very significant and shouldn’t be marginalized.</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 31 at 12:44pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[269418]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_270158 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_270158" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d93b80f67372d" style="display: inline;">Yep I agree with most if not all of the points regarding speculation up to and before day 1 of creation. However, I think one thing you stated that I agreed upon which I don't is<br />
<br />
"that the Earth itself (excluding everything God created in Genesis 1:2 and beyond) *could* theoretically be millions and millions of years old. This includes things on earth like rocks, minerals, water, etc… there is nothing in the Bible that contradicts that these things could be millions upon millions of years old."<br />
<br />
I would have to disagree with this point because when I state "before the days of creation...." I'm referring to the "empty, void and formless" earth which is referred to in scripture in Gen 1:2. According to this rendering the earth was formless and void meaning there was nothing in it ie mountains, valleys etc... And if I'm not mistaken, you're eluding that there were some formations such as mountains, rocks etc... <span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
<br />
I think this small article does a wonderful job showing how there was nothing on the earth before the first day of creation leading up to the verse "The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the WATERS." The reference points towards nothing being there before God started creating, just a big ball of water to put so plainly.<br />
<br />
"The gap theory—Part B"<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v3/i3/gap_theory.asp" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/creation/v3/i3/gap_t<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>heory.asp</a><br />
<br />
Other than that I would just like to point out the main reason I don't understand why Christians are trying to integrate the theory: the Big Bang theory was derived as an "alternative" to the creation message. So I don't understand why they are trying to mix the two. It's an attempt to explain the origin of the universe "without a God" being responsible for it. So why try to say God did it?<br />
<br />
One article stated by Dr. Jason Lisle (PhD in Astro Physics. he wrote the book which I love "The Ultimate Proof Of Creation" which you may borrow anytime you want:<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/PublicStore/product/Ultimate-Proof-of-Creation-The,6134,186.aspx" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/PublicStore/product/<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>Ultimate-Proof-of-Creation<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>-The,6134,186.aspx</a><br />
<br />
"This story of origins is entirely fiction. But sadly, many people claim to believe the big bang model. It is particularly distressing that many professing Christians have been taken in by the big bang, perhaps without realizing its atheistic underpinnings. They have chosen to reinterpret the plain teachings of Scripture in an attempt to make it mesh with secular beliefs about origins."<br />
<br />
Another thing you're forgetting is what the Big Bang teaches about the future.<br />
<br />
"Many people don’t realize that the big bang is a story not only about the past but also about the future. The most popular version of the big bang teaches that the universe will expand forever and eventually run out of usable energy. According to the story, it will remain that way forever in a state that astronomers call “heat death.” But the Bible teaches that the world will be judged and remade. Paradise will be restored. The big bang denies this crucial biblical teaching."<br />
<br />
for more on this and to see some crucial evidence which contradicts the big bang read this short article;<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/wow/does-the-big-bang-fit" onmousedown="UntrustedLink.bootstrap($(this), "a260c7c91fc16678127984411ad174f0", event)" rel="nofollow" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">http://www.answersingenesi<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>s.org/articles/wow/does-th<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>e-big-bang-fit</a><br />
<br />
If anyone else wants to read more on this and other similar topics in the Creation Evolution debate you can head over to my blog @ www.narrowminded7.blogspot<wbr></wbr><span class="word_break" style="display: block; float: left; margin-left: -10px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px;"></span>.com<br />
<br />
Thanks again Pedro<br />
<br />
Joe</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">January 31 at 8:34pm · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[270158]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_270512 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_270512" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887d98db7798a0fa" style="display: inline;">The goal is not to integrate one with another. The goal is to discover more about God’s creation through the clues he’s left us in the natural world. These clues are out there and God allows scientists to discover them. Of course scientist take these discoveries and create theories that don’t involve God… what do you expect… they don’t believe in God. Even so, God reveals many thinks to humanity through these scientists (clearly the Bible supports the fact that God uses non-Christians when he wants to). It’s up to Christians to throw out the secular theories but embrace the raw scientific observations and interpret them through the Bible. I believe that in just about every major scientific theory, there are some raw scientific observations that are true. Let’s not throwing out these small bits of scientific truth just because they have been wrapped up in untrue secular theories.<br />
<br />
Ever since we started talking about origins months ago, I have been trying to get you to see the trees and not just the forest. You’re so wrapped up in fighting the overall scientific theories that it seems difficult for you to support any tad-bit of underlying science that may be true. What we need to do is embrace those truths and interpret them through the Bible. Too many Christians are just not willing to go there because it makes them feel like traders… they feel like if they support any of the underlying science, they are essentially supporting the overall secular theories. That is nonsense. It is a limitation imposed by our minds, and not reality. We need to re-evaluate our limits and bust through these barriers to truly find breakthroughs.<br />
<br />
As far as your assertion that the earth did not contain any rock or minerals prior to the creation (starting in Genesis 1:2) that has no basis in either science or the Bible. From a scientific standpoint, you can go to the flattest places under the sea, dig there and you will certainly find rocks and minerals there (at one depth or another). This is also supported from a Biblical standpoint in Genesis 1:9. It reads “And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear."” God didn’t say he created the land… he said he caused it to appear by parting the waters… clearly suggesting that the land existed under the water. Land as we know it has always contained rock at one depth or another. There is no place on earth where you will find only soil from top to bottom. <span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">February 1 at 12:45am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[270512]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_270580 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_270580" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da0f542e229d1" style="display: inline;">The advice your giving me goes both ways. The whole thing I have been trying to show you is that if the plain teaching of scripture can be 're-interpreted" then ALL of scripture can be re-interpreted and this does the Christian an injustice. How so? If you can take this scripture "And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day" etc.. and say those days probably aren't ordinary days but that they are millions of years (gap theory) then we are re-interpreting God's plain teaching. What do you tell the man who says well if those days are not literal days then maybe Jesus' resurrection wasn't literal either, maybe it was symbolic. What do you say to that? What do you say to the person who says well then maybe Mary's conception wasn't miraculous but just symbolic, she wasn't really a virgin? After all science has never seen a virgin give birth before right? Do you see the dilemma you put yourself in? What do you say to that person when he/she tells you that if we shouldn't take the days of creation literally then we shouldn't take a lot of things in scripture literally? I'm fighting for the non-compromising of the scripture to appease the so called scientific community who develops theories contrary to God so they don't have to acknowledge or answer to Him. Remember Dr. George Wald, Nobel Prize winner and professor emeritus of biology at Harvard University? He said:<br />
<br />
"I do not want to believe in God," Wald admitted to Scientific American magazine. "Therefore I choose to believe in that which I know is scientifically impossible, spontaneous generation arising to evolution." <span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">(quote may be false - still verifying)</span></div></div><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da0f542e229d1" style="display: inline;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;"><br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da0f542e229d1" style="display: inline;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">I have replaced the quote with a biblical one</span></div></div><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da0f542e229d1" style="display: inline;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;"><br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da0f542e229d1" style="display: inline;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: red;">Romans 1:25 "They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator-who is forever praised. Amen."<br />
</span><br />
and Sir Julian Huxley?<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
<br />
"I suppose the reason we leaped at the origin of species was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores"<br />
<br />
I most certainly do not hate or discredit real science or the like. There are plenty of bright Christian scientist of whom many I have quoted material from, why are they wrong and the secular big bang theorist probably right according to you? If you and I place the bible to the side and argue against the bib bang theory on a scientific only basis, you say there is all of this evidence and I say there isn't, and that there is all of this evidence for a young earth no more than 6,000-10,000 years old. So why such a difference? It will always come down to our presupposition, point blank. We will always interpret that evidence according to our presuppositions.<br />
<br />
For instance: your note about the rocks etc.<br />
<br />
"As far as your assertion that the earth did not contain any rock or minerals prior to the creation (starting in Genesis 1:2) that has no basis in either science or the Bible. From a scientific standpoint, you can go to the flattest places under the sea, dig there and you will certainly find rocks and minerals there (at one depth or another)"<br />
<br />
Well that's not the kind of rock we are talking about, those are the continents still connected (I hope you don't adhere to the Pangea theory, because that's a whole different argument I don't wish to debate) The bible is clear that the land God formed was connected all around (which you agree they were pushed up to "appear"). Evolutionist push the Pangaea theory and state that over millions of years the continental land masses moved toward each other to form the major land masses we see today. Consider what Jonah said after his ordeal;<br />
<br />
Jonah 2:5-6 “The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. I WENT DOWN TO THE ROOTS OF THE MOUNTAINS; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.” (emphasis mine)<br />
<br />
Jonah here describes the land masses being connected under water and that these are the "roots of the mountains". This contradicts the Pangaea theory.<br />
<br />
Evolutionist use the geologic column which doesn't even exist other than in the minds of men, to refer to their old ages, they use the rocks with strata layers. They don't use the rock or land or whatever you want to call it under the ocean (they use the fossils they find) to come up with those long age dates The rock (or mountains) your talking about under water have no erosion or strata layers. Evo's use those layers to determine their long ages etc.<br />
<br />
"God didn’t say he created the land… he said he caused it to appear by parting the waters… clearly suggesting that the land existed under the water. Land as we know it has always contained rock at one depth or another. There is no place on earth where you will find only soil from top to bottom."<br />
<br />
See, I agree, but this isn't the land which evolutionists use to date the age of the earth. Just study their geologic column and you will find this to be accurate.<br />
<br />
Anyway, good conversation man. It was fun.<br />
<br />
Joe</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">February 1 at 3:36am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[270580]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_272066 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_272066" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887da6a123288313" style="display: inline;">Here is some food for thought. If I asked an engineer to describe how they created a new electrical/mechanical system from scratch… and told them the intended readers were 8 year old children … what would that engineer’s description read like. Now substitute this same scenario, but instead of an electrical/mechanical system, let says it’s… well the whole universe and substitute the engineer for the greatest engineer of them all; God, and the little children for humanity (which is probably giving us too much credit). Now do me a favor… crack open Genesis and read the first chapter. … Does it feel like your reading a description of creation written from an engineer to an engineer or from an engineer to a child? … Christians need to first understand their place in relation to God before they can ever understand Genesis. We are God’s little infant child… Get real… Genesis is a mile-high overview of creation for God's infant children, not a step by step engineering manual for God’s equals. You are reading Genesis as if it were. I whole heartedly believe you are wrong. Days in Genesis don’t represent real days. The story is illustrative, not literal time. God’s time is not the same as yours. God is not constrained by your sense of time. God is also not constrained to only telling literal stories to his Children. Just because much of the Bible is written as a firsthand account, proves nothing. I see no dilemma in that. It’s quite obvious that Genesis is a quite different method of storytelling than the rest of the bible. It’s plain for anyone to see.<br />
<br />
You’re obviously fighting a fight against Science as a whole because it Godless. You claim to be open to science, but you’re really not. For you, any scientific observation that is a part of any overall scientific theory is unsupportable. It does not matter how true or how accurate the scientific observation is… it does not matter if the Bible supports the possibility of that observation being accurate… nothing matters, because if that observation so much as supports a scrape of an overall scientific theory, like the big bang, you are against it. Why? It’s ridiculous. You can support the scientific observation without supporting the over-extrapolated theory. It does not make you a follower of science to do that you know. You act as though it does.<br />
<br />
I just proved to you that the Bible supports the possibility of multi-million year old rocks on earth. … yet, you will not support it because its a scrap that support part of an over-extrapolated theory of the big bang. Yes Joe, the details of the Big Bang are wrong... but no, not every detailed scietific observation that is used to construct the Big Bang theory is wrong. Some of them are right even though the overall Big Bang theory is not right.<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
<br />
In the middle ages, Christians persecuted scientists who claimed that the Earth was not the center of the Universe as well as scientist who claimed that the Sun didn’t revolve around the Earth. You’re not being any better in my opinion.<br />
</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">February 2 at 12:43am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[272066]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_272095 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_272095" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Pedro Pequeno"><img alt="Pedro Pequeno" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/v22944/925/25/q100000419083237_5856.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000419083237" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pedro Pequeno</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887db36d39434470" style="display: inline;">You and I could obviously go on for ever on this stuff. Thanks for discussing it. We obviously have very different points of view on it. We do have to stop somewhere otherwise this thread of posts will go on for every. My post above will be my last on this thread. I assume you will probably post another, but I am done. For anyone reading all <span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;">these posts... don't get the wrong idea. I highly respect Joe and love the guy. We don't see these discussions as fights but instead enjoyable discussions. We do like to push each other's buttons once in a while, but its all Cool with us. I just don't want anyone to get the wrong idea and think that Joe and I are fighting or anything.</span></div></div><div class="comment_actions" style="color: #777777; padding-bottom: 1px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 2px;">February 2 at 1:11am · <label class="uiLinkButton async_throbber" style="color: #666666; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: middle;"><input class="stat_elem" name="delete[272095]" style="background-attachment: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: initial; background-image: none; background-origin: initial; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; border-bottom-style: none; border-color: initial; border-left-style: none; border-right-style: none; border-top-style: none; border-width: initial; color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; font-weight: normal; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-top: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 0px; vertical-align: top;" type="submit" value="Delete" /></label></div></div></div><div class="ufi_section comment_272104 UIImageBlock clearfix" id="comment_292534046_1311477943586_272104" style="background-color: #eceff5; border-bottom-color: rgb(229, 234, 241); border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 1px; clear: left; display: block; float: none; margin-bottom: 2px; overflow-x: hidden; overflow-y: hidden; padding-bottom: 4px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; padding-top: 5px; width: 350px;"><a class="UIImageBlock_Image UIImageBlock_SMALL_Image" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; float: left; margin-right: 8px; text-decoration: none;" title="Joseph Sirianni"><img alt="Joseph Sirianni" class="UIProfileImage UIProfileImage_SMALL img" src="http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-sf2p/hs257.snc3/23186_1129763141_9974_q.jpg" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-color: initial; border-left-width: 0px; border-right-width: 0px; border-style: initial; border-top-width: 0px; display: block; height: 32px; width: 32px;" /></a><br />
<div class="UIImageBlock_Content UIImageBlock_SMALL_Content" style="display: table-cell; vertical-align: top; width: 1000px;"><div class="comment_text" style="padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; padding-right: 5px; padding-top: 1px;"><a class="comment_author" href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1129763141" style="color: #3b5998; cursor: pointer; font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Joseph Sirianni</a> <br />
<div class="comment_actual_text text_exposed" id="text_expose_id_4b838887db8862858b0da" style="display: inline;">Yeah I guess we'll agree to disagree. Thanks for the discussion though<br />
<br />
However, if you are willing I would like to do some role playing by having<br />
you answer or give your thoughts on a couple of questions<br />
<span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline;"><br />
No long rebuttals to your replies, just me asking you a few questions and<br />
you replying for any readers who are actually following the posts<br />
<br />
Question:<br />
<br />
Could you tell me, was Jesus in the grave for 3 days or was he in the grave<br />
for a long period of time as in the days of Genesis?<br />
<br />
If you say they are three ordinary days could you explain why they are<br />
ordinary days in the gospel acct but millions of years for the first six<br />
days of creation? They are the same exact word in the Hebrew "yom" and are<br />
being used in the exact context (with a number)<br />
<br />
Thanks</span></div></div></div></div></span></div></div></div></span></span></form></span>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com12tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-28120044264742326672010-02-13T01:31:00.000-08:002010-02-13T01:32:58.711-08:00Something Churches Don't Address Anymore.....Hell<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; white-space: pre; ">Something Churches Don't Address Anymore.....Hell This convicts my soul to the uttermost.</span><br /><br /><object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkLLOH7qXPg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HkLLOH7qXPg&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-75048319807950370752010-02-08T21:38:00.000-08:002010-02-08T21:48:54.330-08:00What Is “Presuppositional” Apologetics?<p>Hey guys, I wanted to share this article with you because I've mentioned this over and over again on the blog before - It's an article put out by the guys over at Answers In Genesis. It explains why we (creationist and evolutionists) have a difficult time seeing eye to eye when we are both observing same exact evidence, yet we come to drastic and different conclusions. Why is that? Another quote elsewhere states this flawlessly:</p><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">"Creationists and evolutionists, Christians and non-Christians all have the </span><i style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;">same</i><span style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"> evidence—the same facts. Think about it: we all have the same earth, the same fossil layers, the same animals and plants, the same stars—the facts are all the same.</span> <p style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">The difference is in the way we all interpret the facts. And why do we interpret facts differently? Because we start with different presuppositions (different starting points). These are things that are assumed to be true, without being able to prove them. These then become the basis for other conclusions. All reasoning is based on presuppositions (also called axioms). This becomes especially relevant when dealing with past events." (emphasis mine)</span><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><span style="font-size:130%;">What Is “Presuppositional” Apologetics?</span><br /></p><p>By Dr. David Wright<br /></p><p><br /></p><p>When explaining their beliefs, Christians often feel they must first prove the Bible or prove the existence of God. This approach reveals that they do not yet understand the Bible’s approach, known as presuppositional apologetics.</p> <p> Presuppositions are simply beliefs that everyone has that affect how they think, view the world, interpret evidence, and read the Bible. Apologetics is a reasoned defense of beliefs. So presuppositional apologetics is a reasoned defense of Christian beliefs based on recognizing our presuppositions. </p> <p>For instance, my presupposition is that God exists and He has given us His Word (the Bible) that is absolute truth. So I use the Bible as the basis for how to think, interpret evidence, explain the world around me, and read the Bible. An atheist’s presupposition will most likely be that there is no God and that truth is relative. An atheist believes that man decides truth, and so he thinks, interprets evidence, and views the world and Bible accordingly.</p> <p> If we start off believing the Bible is the Word of God (<cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/2%20Timothy%203.16">2 Timothy 3:16</a></cite>; <cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Psalm%2018.30">Psalm 18:30</a></cite>; <cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Proverbs%2030.5">Proverbs 30:5</a></cite>), then we use it as our axiom. An axiom (often used in logic) is a proposition that is not susceptible to proof or disproof; its truth is assumed. The Bible takes this stance, assuming God’s existence to be true and not something to be proven (<cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Genesis%201.1">Genesis 1:1</a></cite>; <cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Exodus%203.14">Exodus 3:14</a></cite>; <cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Revelation%201.8">Revelation 1:8</a></cite>). </p> <p>The battle is not over evidence but over philosophical starting points: presuppositions. As Christians, we should never put away our axiom—the Bible—when discussing truth with others. This would be like a soldier going into battle without any armor or weapons. Asking a Christian to abandon the Bible for the sake of discussion is like asking an atheist to prove there is no God by using only the Bible. You would be asking the atheist to give up his axiom.</p> <p> The prophets and the apostles never tried to prove God’s existence. They started by assuming God’s existence, and they always reasoned from Scripture (<cite class="bibleref"><a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Acts%2017.2">Acts 17:2</a>, <a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Acts%2017.17">17</a>; <a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Acts%2018.4">18:4</a>, <a target="_blank" class="lbsBibleRef" href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nkjv/Acts%2018.19">19</a></cite>). By using the Word of God, we are actually pitting the unbeliever against God and not our own fallible thinking. </p>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-68776447562584667072010-01-13T20:58:00.000-08:002010-01-13T21:12:10.654-08:00Evolution Could Not Do This!<a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiveMSA2YIG2vzn6tUB6qvhi4NaHSPZglxSBOZDnCfa29P-ie_v4ceWL6dOfeTfI8gjwJqvZvkXtsGzs0JnYuvY4wb6KdQLkeouuTboel5fgbGeuZ2wZCf7nVEuNSuvM0EXbXCfR-rfkcI/s1600-h/Trilobite.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer; width: 320px; height: 240px;" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiveMSA2YIG2vzn6tUB6qvhi4NaHSPZglxSBOZDnCfa29P-ie_v4ceWL6dOfeTfI8gjwJqvZvkXtsGzs0JnYuvY4wb6KdQLkeouuTboel5fgbGeuZ2wZCf7nVEuNSuvM0EXbXCfR-rfkcI/s320/Trilobite.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5426456319225558450" border="0" /></a><br />Another article from the Evolution Cruncher showing the extreme limits of evolution. This comes from the series of articles "Evolution Could Not Do This"<br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">The trilobite is abundant in the very lowest fossil levels; but, according to *Levi </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Setti</span><span style="font-style: italic;">, it's eye is said to have "possessed the most </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">sophisticated</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> eye lenses ever produced by nature." which required "knowledge of Fermat's principle, Abe's sine law, Snell's law of refraction and the optics of birefringent crystal." He concludes: "The lenses look like they were designed by a physicist."</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">Because crayfish and lobsters live their </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">life's</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> moving backward, they have an </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">unusual</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> internal </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_4">plumbing</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> system. The kidney is located in front of the mouth, so the gill circulation can carry the wastes away from the body. If the kidney outlet was near the back end as in most creatures, the wastes would be carried to the gills. </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_5">This</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> perfect design enables crayfish and lobsters to live efficiently, whether very slowly crawling forward or rapidly swimming backward.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-style: italic;">One bacterium has small hairs twisted in a stiff spiral at one end of the creature. Upon closer microscopic examination, scientists were totally amazed to discover that this bacterium has a rotary engine! It spins this corkscrew like the propeller of a ship, driving itself forward through water. It can even reverse the engine! </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_6">Researchers</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> still do not understand how it is able to whirl the mechanism. Using this method of locomotion, it is able to attain speeds which would, if it were our size, propel it forward at 30 miles (48 km) per hour. Commenting on this, *Leo Janos in Smithsonian said that "nature invented the wheel." Another researcher, *</span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_7">Helmut</span> <span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_8">Tributsch</span><span style="font-style: italic;">, declared: "One of the most fantastic concepts in biology has come true: Nature has indeed produced a </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_9">rotary</span><span style="font-style: italic;"> engine, complete with </span><span style="font-style: italic;" class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_10">coupling</span><span style="font-style: italic;">, rotating axle, bearings, and rotating power transmission." </span><br /><br /><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/JOE&LI%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png" alt="" />Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-85564972255063051852009-11-10T20:29:00.000-08:002009-11-10T20:32:29.311-08:00Debate: Dr. Kent Hovind vs Dr. Hugh RossAn excellent debate between two of the leading scholars of our time regarding the Age of the Earth. There is a great presentation here between both sides. I hope it will help you formulate an opinion on the subject.<br /><br /><object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="400" height="320" id="utv202741"><param name="flashvars" value="autoplay=false&brand=embed&cid=383672"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><param name="movie" value="http://www.ustream.tv/flash/live/1/383672"><embed flashvars="autoplay=false&brand=embed&cid=383672" width="400" height="320" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" id="utv202741" name="utv_n_353012" src="http://www.ustream.tv/flash/live/1/383672" type="application/x-shockwave-flash"></embed></object><a href="http://www.ustream.tv/" style="padding: 2px 0px 4px; width: 400px; background: #ffffff; display: block; color: #000000; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; text-decoration: underline; text-align: center;" target="_blank">Stream videos at <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Ustream</span></a>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com5tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-31707937608889327502009-11-08T19:08:00.000-08:002009-11-08T20:27:40.522-08:00Debate: William B. Provine and Phillip E. JohnsonHere's a debate I came accross from the Uncommon Descent website between William B. Provine and Phillip E. Johnson at Stanford University, April 30, 1994.<br /><br />What an excellent, intelligable and logical exchange between these two scholars. I enjoyed it very much and I hope you will too. Here is the debate in 11 video segments from YouTube.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-H6NxdCd4">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-H6NxdCd4</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghf3dXPAuhQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghf3dXPAuhQ</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_fPERJ8KRw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_fPERJ8KRw</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfX0jdlFS5o">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfX0jdlFS5o</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9W1Y_PmhSI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9W1Y_PmhSI</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgiU_ML7Cc">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzgiU_ML7Cc</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwpmM8qA_8k">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwpmM8qA_8k</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX2-QH6-R1o">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX2-QH6-R1o</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnRmhQsFBzQ">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnRmhQsFBzQ</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ6fWL0j4aw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ6fWL0j4aw</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw95K3SUefU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw95K3SUefU</a><br /><br />Study Guide:<br /><br /><a dir="ltr" title="http://www.arn.org/docs/guides/stan_gd1.htm" href="http://www.arn.org/docs/guides/stan_gd1.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.arn.org/docs/guides/stan_gd1.htm</a> Transcript: <a dir="ltr" title="http://www.arn.org/docs/orpages/or161/161main.htm" href="http://www.arn.org/docs/orpages/or161/161main.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.arn.org/docs/orpages/or161/161main.htm</a>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-64750848980785253262009-11-08T18:58:00.000-08:002009-11-08T19:04:58.411-08:00It's As Though The Cell Was Actually................"Designed"If I didn't know any better, it would seem almost, just almost, like the cell was "designed" and had some kind of a purpose and direction. Just my opinion of course. But take a look at the complex functions of the Cell and judge for your self. In my opinion, The Creator's signature is saturated within in it.<br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1fiJupfbSpg&hl=" width="560" height="340" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" fs="1&" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com1tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-48718138085019156432009-10-29T16:48:00.000-07:002009-10-29T17:33:00.174-07:00Is the Bible Reliable as a Historical Document?A great defense from Lee <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Strobel</span> on the reliability of the scriptures as literal "history". Listen to the points he makes regarding the details that the authors leave in their accounts/writings regarding what they saw and experienced. <div><br /></div><div>These are not just a collection of stories one man created in his basement some years back and cleverly put together. It never fails when I'm debating someone and I bring up the bible, for them to say right away "but the bible was written by man", as though this is supposed to discredit it right off the bat. And while I won't disagree that man has some flaws and memory issues, this is a central point, worth noting, in that God gave man divine revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit when he told man to "write this down...." If you want to discredit the bible, you should first ask yourself whether or not this collection of books is actually "inspired" or not. No Christian argues that man wrote the bible. What we argue is that it has been beautifully and accurately preserved for thousands of years. The book of Isaiah is dated to be around 800-1000 years before the time of Christ. So its worth it to point out the fact that he prophesied Jesus would be born of a virgin in Bethlehem and that he would "die on a tree" Now how would Isaiah know 800 years before Jesus was born that he would die of crucifixion even before the <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">Romans</span> invented it? Do you think Jesus was smart enough to plan where he would be born and the exact way he would die? Now that's clever. The truth is no man could ever make up what is written in scripture. The bible was written over a period of 1400-1600 years from 40 different authors over three different continents in three different languages and yet is in such harmony that it is as though one man did write it. In my opinion, this is exactly what one would find if a consistent (Hebrews 13:8) God was giving man divine inspiration.</div><div><br /></div><div><br />This will always amaze me. And lets not forget that the bible mentioned historical and scientific facts long before man even discovered them. Job said the world was a "sphere" long before man did. Solomon described the hydraulic cycle man only discovered but a short time ago. There are quite a number of <a href="http://www.inplainsite.org/html/scientific_facts_in_the_bible.html">scientific facts</a> in the bible. Enjoy the video<br /><div><br /><iframe src="http://www.leestrobel.com/videoserver/player.php?clip=strobelT1142&link=http://www.ccn3shop.com/video/leestrobel/Christ/topic/wmv_M/strobelT1142_M.wmv&playerType=WM" name="player" width="320" height="304" scrolling="no" frameborder="0">[Your browser does not support frames or is currently configured not to display frames. Please contact tech support if you are unable to configure your browser for frames.]</iframe></div></div>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com3tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-85621543437337361182009-10-11T18:49:00.000-07:002009-10-11T19:32:41.777-07:00Louie Giglio - LamininFolks, this one is a real treat! Credit goes out to my good friend Doug for sending me this video and my faithful friend Kevin who first told me about the <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Laminin</span> protein cell last year. It was incredible to see a bit of a bread crumb of God's signature on something so small. It will always baffle me how many can cavalierly accept the evolutionary theory without first checking out all the facts and so called evidences. And how none are presented with the holes and major problems with the theory, but only the theory itself and when it is presented, it's presented in such a way as though it's fact and shouldn't be questioned. Where is the academic freedom? Where is the free choice to go where the evidence leads?<br /><br /><div>One day, very soon, the Lord will return (<span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;">1 Thessalonians 4:16-18<span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: normal; font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:16px;">) And the bible says that every eye will see him and that when they do there will be great mourning (<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:100%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre;font-size:12px;">Rev 1:7</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: normal; font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:16px;">) The bible says "Today" is the day of salvation. Don't put this off another day! Don't harden your hearts any longer (<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:100%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre;font-size:12px;">Hebrews 4:7</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: normal; font-family:Georgia, serif;font-size:16px;">) Forget what the "Left behind" series books say. There will not be a mass disappearance and then everyone left wondering what happened. "Every eye will see" declares the Word. And the scripture says that we will see Him coming on the clouds (<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre;">Matt 24:30</span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: pre; font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" white-space: normal; font-family:Georgia, serif;">) I hope and pray that this video makes you think a little about the origins debate. If you accept evolution simply because the alternative is just unimaginable to you, then you're not being intellectually honest with yourself. Look into these things, it's worth it when thinking in the light of eternity. Eternity is such a long time folks. The bible has been tested time and time again and proven to be accurate and trustworthy in all that it says. So then why should we doubt it when it touches on Heaven and Hell? Please, I urge you to at least look into these things. This site only exist with the aim and goal to point people to Jesus, the only One who died and then rose again. <a href="http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html">(Evidence for the Resurrection)</a></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:-webkit-xxx-large;"><br /></span></div><div>Please stick with the video - After the first three minutes I <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">guarantee</span> you will be in for a wonderful treat.</div><div><br /><object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_e4zgJXPpI4&hl=en&fs=1&"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_e4zgJXPpI4&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object><br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminin">What is <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">Laminin</span>?</a><br /><br /><a href="http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=active&q=laminin">What does a <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_3">Laminin</span> protein cell look like?</a></div>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-86185383352548637612009-09-20T07:36:00.000-07:002009-09-28T13:53:27.087-07:00Kirk Cameron - Origin Into SchoolsIf anyone is interested; I will do my best to obtain a large amount of these books and distribute them at either <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">Lehigh</span> University or <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">Desales</span> myself. Enjoy.<br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aUt6u-aED4A&hl=" width="560" height="340" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" fs="1&"></embed>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com10tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-75082961321775433602009-09-05T01:00:00.000-07:002009-09-05T01:02:23.422-07:00Using Common Sense To Debunk EvolutionRay Comfort does it again - using plain o'l common sense.<br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vWBC0AnAAT0&hl=" fs="1&" width="425" height="344" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com30tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-81289490283302059552009-07-20T19:00:00.000-07:002009-07-20T19:22:29.367-07:00Michael Jackson - The REAL cause of deathHere's a little tidbit put out by Way Of The Master Ministries. I hope it will cause many to think about things such as Heaven and Hell. It's a shame at how many people just sweep the subject under the carpet and "hope" that there is no Hell or that neither of them exist all without doing some kind of an inductive study on the topic. If one would just research the evidence for the reliability of the bible, or the evidence for the resurrection etc they just might find something they have never ever considered before, that Jesus Christ is real and can be pursued in a relationship. And regarding Hell, well if Jesus was and is a real person and his claims of hell are accurate in the scriptures which are extremely reliable, then Hell is a real place that was prepared for the "Devil and his angels". Hell was not meant for you and I but all of those who reject salvation is like the man who is hanging off the side of the cliff and rejects the rope that is handed down to him which can save him. <br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vOxSAnnoI3E&hl=" fs="1&" width="560" height="340" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-53980603487203942822009-07-11T05:28:00.000-07:002009-07-11T06:57:16.117-07:00Dinosaur soft tissue and protein—even more confirmation!<a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SliYebS4zTI/AAAAAAAAAvA/aekp0k17GT0/s1600-h/127_dinoprotein.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5357199405247679794" style="FLOAT: right; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px 10px; WIDTH: 246px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 320px" alt="" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SliYebS4zTI/AAAAAAAAAvA/aekp0k17GT0/s320/127_dinoprotein.jpg" border="0" /></a><br /><br />Some of you may remember some time ago, around 1991, an Evolutionist (Dr. Mary Schweitzer) found red blood cells in a fossil of a T-Rex dinosaur. I think most will find Dr Schweitzer's 2005 findings fascinating. Logically speaking, what should one conclude if they find red blood cells and elastic bone marrow? One thing I wouldn't be wondering is, how is it possible that these blood cells could have survived for 63-65 million years? But rather, I would ask, is it possible that maybe these fossils are not millions of years old? This, in my opinion, and many others is where the evolution theory is a hindrance to real science. When the evolution goggles are on it's difficult to be open minded and to contemplate the possibility that millions of years might be unreasonable when finding red blood cells in Dino fossils. Their presuppositions prevent them from this possibility.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Here's the article from CMI:<br /><br /><br /><br /><strong>Dinosaur soft tissue and protein—even more confirmation!</strong><br /><br />Mary Schweitzer announces even stronger evidence, this time from a duckbilled dino fossil, of even more proteins—and the same amazingly preserved vessel and cell structures as before.<br />by <a href="http://creation.com/article/3990">Carl Wieland</a><br /><br />Published: 6 May 2009 (GMT+10)<br /><br />Creationists were fascinated, and evolutionists mostly skeptical, when evolutionist Dr Mary Schweitzer claimed in the 1990s that an unfossilized piece of <a href="http://creation.com/article/606">T. rex bone contained red blood cells</a>. Further, that there was immunological and spectroscopic evidence of the presence of hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying protein that gives red blood cells their colour.<a name="txtRef1"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef1">1</a><br /><br />Then in 2005, Schweitzer announced a further sensational discovery in a different T.rex bone. After the mineral matrix was dissolved,<a name="txtRef2"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef2">2</a> what remained were structures with all the appearance of soft tissue, <a href="http://creation.com/still-soft-and-stretchy">still soft and stretchy</a>. Some of these appeared to be transparent branching blood vessels, with a substance inside them containing further structures looking just like nucleated red blood cells, and able to be squeezed out of the vessels like toothpaste.<br /><br />How could such fragile structures survive for millions of years? Long-agers went into intense, but not very effective damage control, such as seen in the item (containing CMI’s response) <a href="http://creation.com/article/3427">Squirming at the Squishosaur</a>.<br /><br />Gradually, further evidence strengthened the case that Schweitzer had indeed discovered evidence of astonishing preservation of organic material in fossils. In 2007, in <a href="http://creation.com/article/5060">Squashing Squishosaur Scepticism</a>, we reported that she and her team had performed careful tests to establish the presence of the protein collagen in the dino fossil—an important protein in bone. They were even able to sequence stretches of it, which showed that it was 58% similar to collagen from a chicken, and 51% similar to that from a frog.<a name="txtRef3"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef3">3</a><br /><br />It has been pointed out many times that fragile, complex molecules like proteins, even if hermetically sealed, should fall apart all by themselves from thermodynamic considerations alone in well under the 65 million years that evolutionists insist have passed since Schweitzer’s T. rex specimen was entombed.<a name="txtRef4"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef4">4</a>,<a name="txtRef5"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef5">5</a> Furthermore, bones of an Iguanodon allegedly twice as old (“dated” to 120 Ma) contained enough of the protein <a href="http://creation.com/article/4751">osteocalcin</a> to produce an immune reaction.<a name="txtRef6"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef6">6</a><br /><br />Many anti-creationists therefore breathed a sigh of relief when in mid-2008 a paper claimed to have found evidence that the transparent blood vessels, for instance, were the result of recent bacterial formation of biofilms, forming “endocasts” that followed the shape of where the original vessels lay, and that the red blood cells are actually iron-rich spheres called framboids. There were substantial reasons why not just creationists, but Schweitzer and other non-creationists were not at all convinced by these claims—see <a href="http://creation.com/article/5931">Doubting doubts about the Squishosaur</a>.<br /><br />The new findings<br /><br />Now comes a further announcement by Schweitzer and others, in the prestigious journal Science, of substantial additional evidence to bolster her previous findings.<a name="txtRef7"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef7">7</a> The specimen on this occasion was a piece of fossil hadrosaur (duckbilled dinosaur) bone (Brachylophosaurus canadensis) regarded by evolutionary assumptions as being 80 million years old.<br />In short, the researchers found evidence of “the same fibrous matrix, transparent, flexible vessels, and preserved microstructures she had seen in the T. rex sample”.<a name="txtRef8"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef8">8</a> Only this time they went to exceptional lengths to silence critics.<br /><br />Critics said that her claims, which given the millions of years perspective are indeed “extraordinary”, required extraordinary evidence. But this is a cliché; in reality, they just require evidence, and that has been amply provided. Yet the critics demanded additional protein sequencing, super-careful handling to avoid claims of contamination, and confirmation from other laboratories. So Schweitzer and her team set about doing just that when they looked at the leg bone of this hadrosaur encased in sandstone.<br /><br />Extraordinary measures were taken to keep the sample away from contamination until it reached the lab. They used an even more sophisticated and newer mass spectrometer, and sent the samples to two other labs for confirmation. They reported finding not just collagen, but evidence of two additional proteins—elastin and <a href="http://creation.com/article/5992">laminin</a>. They also found structures uncannily resembling the cells found in both blood and bone, as well as cellular basement membrane matrix. And there were, once again, hints of hemoglobin, gleaned from applying hemoglobin-specific antibodies to the structures and seeing if the antibodies would bind to them.<br />Some scientists are still skeptical about the hemoglobin, which is “difficult to identify with current technology”. Dr Pavel Pevzner of the University of California, was quoted as saying that if it is not a contaminant, it would be “much bigger news [than the confirmed discoveries of blood vessels and other connective tissues in] this paper.”<a name="txtRef9"></a><a href="http://creation.com/dinosaur-soft-tissue-and-proteineven-more-confirmation#endRef9">9</a><br /><br />Even leaving aside the hemoglobin, the Schweitzer et al paper is huge news. Pevzner had been critical of the technique used in Schweitzer’s analysis of the T. rex protein, but now he says that her new study “was ‘done the right way,’ with more stringent controls to guard against contamination”, for one thing.<br /><br />There were eight collagen proteins alone discovered from the hadrosaur fossil, which revealed twice as many amino acids as the previous tyrannosaur specimen. These were compared with sequences from animals living today as well as from mastodon fossils and her T. rex sequences. The hadrosaur and tyrannosaur collagens were closer to each other than the others, and each were closer to chickens and ostriches than to crocodilians, for instance—results which would also confirm her previous identification of T. rex collagen.<br /><br />The samples were identified as collagen by both sophisticated mass spectroscopy and antibody-binding techniques. They were also examined via both light and electron microscopy, which confirmed that they had the appearance of collagen as well.<br />As Schweitzer says, “These data not only build upon what we got from the T. rex, they take the research even further.”<br /><br />Power of the paradigm<br /><br />Philosophers of science have written much about the power of a paradigm, especially when it has worldview implications, such as long-age belief. Such a paradigm is seldom, if ever, overthrown simply because of observations that contradict its expectations. Even Schweitzer herself, despite professing to be an evangelical Christian, is extremely defensive about the old-age paradigm—see <a href="http://creation.com/article/4504">Schweitzer’s Dangerous Discovery</a>.<br /><br />What happens is that “auxiliary” hypotheses and assumptions are constructed to preserve the intactness of the “core” hypothesis, in this case what is known as “deep time” (see <a href="http://creation.com/article/4678">further explanation</a>). In simple terms, proteins should simply not have been able to last for these tens of millions of years. So when they are found in specimens dated this old, the paradigm is under serious threat.<br /><br />The most straightforward fit to the evidence is that the time of burial of these dinosaurs was not millions of years ago at all, but only thousands of years ago at most. As the evidence continues to mount that dinosaur fossils do indeed contain well-preserved soft tissue structures and identifiable proteins, the assumption that will increasingly be made is that “we now know that such tissue components can last that long, after all.”<br /><br />Not many will see this as the paradigm-rescuing assumption that it is. Consider the line of reasoning:<br /><br />1). We know that this dinosaur fossil is 80 million years old.<br /><br />2). Calculations based on <a href="http://creation.com/article/2891">operational (observational) science</a> indicate that no collagen should survive anywhere near that long.<br /><br />3). Collagen has been identified in these dinosaur fossils. Therefore:<br /><br />4). There must be a mistaken assumption in the calculations mentioned in Point 2)—though we don’t know for sure how, collagen must be able to survive for 80 million years. How do we know that? Because<br /><br />5). We know that this dinosaur fossil is 80 million years old.<br />Notice how points 1) and 5) are identical, revealing the circularity. The following chain of reasoning is far more science-based:<br /><br />1). This dinosaur fossil is claimed to be 80 million years old.<br /><br />2). Calculations based on operational (observational) science indicate that no collagen should survive anywhere near that long.<br /><br />3). Collagen has been identified in these dinosaur fossils. Therefore:<br /><br />4). The claim in point 1) is wrong. The fossil cannot be anywhere near that old. This matches the expectations of a worldview based on the history given to us in the book of Genesis.<br />We hope that many readers will be able to use this sort of evidence to gently pry open many closed minds.<br /><br />Update 9 May 2009: see <a href="http://creation.com/article/6579" target="_blank">answer to a critic who disputes that these findings are a big deal</a>.Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com9tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-82728345952677908642009-06-30T19:35:00.000-07:002009-12-10T20:24:36.692-08:00Meeting With The Mormons<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">Well I guess now would be as good as any time to do a small post on Mormonism. I just had the pleasure of sitting down over coffee with two Mormon elders who have been showing up in the neighborhood of late (they drank hot chocolate) I first asked them if they held the Holy Bible as authoritative in their faith (as this was going to be my foundational doctrine in our conversation) They said absolutely (though they do not hold it above the <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/bm/contents">Book of Mormons</a>) In fact in one of their very own works they have stated </span><i><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">"</span></b></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: 19px; font-size:13px;"><i><b><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible",</span></b></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"> (</span><em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">History of the Church</span></em><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">, 4:461).</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:100%;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style=" line-height: 19px;font-size:13px;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><br /></span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 19px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:medium;">Once they have stated that they did use the bible it wasn't very difficult to take their teachings and then show the direct contradictions between the bible and the Book of Mormon (They also use Joseph Smiths' "The Pearl of Great Price") I used many questions from The <a href="http://www.carm.org/mormonism"><span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_0">CARM</span></a> website and some from the <a href="http://www.evidencebible.com/">Evidence bible</a> which has an excellent section on the various cults of today.</span></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 19px;"><br /></span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="line-height: 19px;">It was a very interesting conversation and there were a few things mentioned that they never knew existed in the bible. I think there was a mutual thankfulness in the room that everyone was being open minded and patient to hear one another out. I could tell one of the Elders was being fascinated with the conversation and admitted to having a learning disorder though I didn't pick up on it because he weaving in and out of the conversation just fine. But he did admit (with all the scripture being quoted) that he wished he read his bible more. I took the route that all religions can be wrong but not all religions can be right because of the law of non-contradiction. I really appreciated the honesty in these two guys. I look forward to meeting with them again soon. They asked for some of my material and for the website of the questions I posed to them. I thank God for truly being there and guiding the whole thing. And though I don't know what will ever come of this if anything, I'm thankful for the opportunity to speak to people regarding the Gospel, the good news instead of just rather sitting on my faith and having an "someone else will take of it" attitude. Next time we speak, no doubt we will go over many of those contradictions mentioned such as the Trinity, Jesus Christ and some contradictions within their own works, mainly the Book of Mormons. I even got my very own fresh copy of the book :) I"ll set it right next to my copy o the <span class="blsp-spelling-error" id="SPELLING_ERROR_1">Quran</span>.</span></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">And here is the Rev Matt Slick with a few words on Mormonism. Remember, </span><i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;">"always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have"</span></i><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"> -1st Peter 3:15<br /><br /></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0b0UQaBJQRg&hl=" fs="1&" width="560" height="340" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed><br /><br /></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-h5PheQH-Oc&hl=" fs="1&" width="560" height="340" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><br /></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family:arial;"><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/why-66?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+AIGDaily+(Answers+in+Genesis+Daily+Articles)&utm_content=Google+Reader">Why do Christians use and <span class="blsp-spelling-corrected" id="SPELLING_ERROR_2">believe</span> in the Bible?</a></span></div>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-63976744443320116232009-05-21T16:42:00.000-07:002009-05-22T00:12:14.239-07:00My Reply To "Playd76" On YouTubeEvery so often I'll view a Creation vs Evolutionism video or debate on YouTube and will come across some of the comments typed out regarding the video. I usually try to reply to one of the comments where I feel a person is at least attempting to use some logical argument and engage in some kind of dialogue hoping to reason with them. The biggest misconception that most of these atheist and evolutionists have is that they are unable to distinguish the difference between "Christianity" and "Religion". They fail to understand that Christians will stand right beside them when it comes to some of the things that were done in the name of religion. They seem to be confusing the Roman Catholic church and some of their practices which clearly contradict what Christ taught. Here is the dialogue between myself and "Playd76" from the video <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POcTqdkdyWY&feature=email" target="_blank">Creation vs Evolution</a>:<br /><br />Playd76 has also been invited to read this reply and then comment or debate via the comments section for this particular post to defend his/her argument. As I usually do this often I will attempt to paste various dialogues between myself and other commentators on YouTube so that you can see what the common arguments are as well as mistakes and misconceptions are between various belief groups.<br />_______<br /><br />I started out the comment stating that there was no "empirical" evidence for Macro Evolution, that which teaches as fact that dogs produced non dogs and cats produced non cats etc...<br /><br />by it's very definition<br /><br /><strong><u><span style="color:#ff6666;">Em-pir-i-cal:</span></u></strong><br /><br /><span style="color:#ff6666;">–adjective </span><br /><br /><span style="color:#ff6666;">1. derived from or guided by experience or experiment.</span><br /><br /><span style="color:#ff6666;">2. depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, esp. as in medicine.</span><br /><br /><span style="color:#ff6666;">3. provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.</span><br /><br />So by it's very definition, evolutionist do the same exact thing that Christians do. Has any evolutionist directly observed evolution occurring? Were they there at the beginning? When they find a dinosaur bone in the ground, how does this bone tell them that the animal even had offspring, nevertheless different or mutated ones?<br /><br />What's amazing is that Playd76 and I are both using the same exact evidence available for everyone. The only difference is our presuppositions. I hope as I have been opened minded over the years (9) when studying this topic, so Playd76 will also set aside his/her presuppositions and consider the Christian message which is both resonable and rational. I'll respond point by point until comments are entered in the comment section and will then return dialogue from that section on. Anyone is welcome to add input as well.<br /><br /><span style="font-size:130%;"><strong><u>Playd76's comment</u>- </strong></span><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">1 - No 'empirical' evidence? lol, you're going to need some paper pants if its true about ignorance being bliss. We have evidence from every branch of science supporting it, it's been biologically proven as i mentioned previously, what part of that didn't you understand? Are you now going to really show us your level of ignorance by telling us 'it's just a theory'? lol To call 'evolution' a religion is a joke. Firstly, this suggests you have problems with religion when you clearly</span></em> <em><span style="color:#ff6666;">2 - don't being as you accept bronze age beliefs that would normally result in somebody being certified mentally ill under any other circumstances, (as Sam Harris say's "it seems like there's sanity in numbers" whilst we have the support of the entire scientific community as well as the colossal amount of evidence you're obviously oblivious too. Evolution simply describes part of nature & the fact that this part of nature is important to many people hardly makes evolution a religion.</span></em> <em><span style="color:#ff6666;">3 - Religion explains ultimate reality whereas evolution ends with the development of life AFTER it had already began. Evolution also doesn't deal with the 'supernatural' in any way, shape or form. Creationism begins with a preconceived conclusion (making it biased from the outset) & desperately tries to find facts to support it (failing miserably as EVERY shred of empirical evidence supports evolution) unlike evolution that takes the facts then comes to an IMPARTIAL conclusion using</span></em> <em><span style="color:#ff6666;">3 - ONLY the evidence available. Evolution is also open to revision or even abandonment as new evidence comes to light unlike the stagnant & bigoted nature of creationism. Look up 'Tiktaalik' if you have trouble accepting there are any transitional forms between marine & land animals. Again, we have this wonderful thing called evidence, you people should try it."your faith is much much greater than any Christian"How many people do you know of that have killed in the name of evolution?</span></em><br /><br />My point by point reply;<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"No 'empirical' evidence?........We have evidence from every branch of science supporting it, it's been biologically proven as i mentioned previously, what part of that didn't you understand?"</span></em><br /><br />Well, could you be more specific about the "evidence" you speak of? What exactly was the evidence that put it over the top for you? What is the absolute evidence you saw that convinced you macro evolution is true and that all of the life we see today came from one single organism. Where did the "information" come from to change one animal into another animal? And it's funny you say it's been "biologically proven" Speaking of biology, could you demonstrate how the flagellum cell which has been demonstrated that it could not have evolved because all of it's components are required to be fully present or it doesn't work? So if this organism cannot be broken down any more without it falling apart how could it have evolved gradually since all of it's parts have to be present for it to work? I think you underestimate this little machine. This irreducibly complex motor can do some extraordinary things. You want me and others to believe that this could have come about by random chance and mutation without anything guiding it whatsoever? Natural selection doesn't work here alone because as mentioned before this did not gradually evolve. Darwin himself said <em><u><span style="color:#33ffff;">"If it could ever be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."</span></u></em><br /><br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0N09BIEzDlI&color1=" width="425" height="344" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" color2="0xcfcfcf&feature=" fs="1" allowfullscreen="true"></embed><br /><br />My friend, biology is certainly not on your side - <a href="http://creationwiki.org/pool/images/7/7b/Bacterial_flagellum_diagram.png">http://creationwiki.org/pool/images/7/7b/Bacterial_flagellum_diagram.png</a><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"whilst we have the support of the entire scientific community as well as the colossal amount of evidence you're obviously oblivious too"</span></em><br /><br />Wow - the entire scientific community believes in evolution? This is a major assumption on your part as not every scientist believes in evolution. But if I were to give you that, would evolution be true because every scientist believes in it? The obvious answer is "no". In Copernicus's day all scientist taught that the earth was the center of the universe, where they all right? It was once taught by all scientist that heavier objects fall faster than lighter objects etc... Did this mean they were right? No, we now know that objects fall at the same speed when accelerated by gravity when there is no air resistance. So just because the majority agree on something doesn't mean they're right. However, I would like to return to my point that your statement is false to begin with because not every scientist believes in evolution. For instance, there are many professionally trained scientists who do not believe in the theory of evolution and are available to speak for groups or churches. Multiple speakers have Masters Degrees and PhD's. Some speakers include: Don DeYoung, who has a PhD in physics; Michael Oard, who has a Masters in Atmospheric Science; Eugene Chaffin, who has a Masters in Physics; David Kaufmann, who has a PhD in Human Anatomy; Kevin Anderson, who has a PhD in Microbiology; Mark Armitage, who has a Masters of Science in Biology. So are these men not scientist by your standards?<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"Evolution simply describes part of nature & the fact that this part of nature is important to many people hardly makes evolution a religion."</span></em><br /><br />No, what makes it a religion is that your belief in evolution requires faith because the origin of life and the production of new information through mutation has not been demonstrated under any conceivable circumstance.<br /><br />consider some quotes from your own evolutionist's:<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">"The irony is devastating. The main purpose of Darwinism was to drive every last trace of an incredible God from biology. But the theory replaces God with an even more incredible deity - omnipotent chance." T. Rosazak, "Unfinished Animal", 1975, p. 101-102.</span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">[Evolution]“…a full-fledged alternative to Christianity…Evolution is a religion. This was true of evolution in the beginning, and it is true of evolution still today.” Michael Ruse. Saving Darwinism from the Darwinians. National Post (May 13, 2000). pB-3.</span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">“…evolution is the backbone of biology and biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science founded on unproven theory. Is it then a science or a faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly parallel to belief in special creation. Both are concepts which the believers know to be true, but neither, up to the present, has been capable of proof.” L.H. Matthews, "Introduction to Origin of the Species, by Charles Darwin (1971 edition), </span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">"In fact [subsequent to the publication of Darwin's book, Origin of Species], evolution became, in a sense, a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to `bend' their observations to fit with it. . To my mind, the theory does not stand up at all . . If living matter is not, then, caused by the interplay of atoms, natural forces, and radiation, how has it come into being? . . I think, however, that we must go further than this and admit that the only acceptable explanation is Creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the experimental evidence supports it." H.S. Lipson, "A Physicist Looks at Evolution," Physics Bulletin, Vol. 31, p. 138 (1980) [emphasis his].</span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">“This evolutionist doctrine is itself one of the strangest phenomena of humanity…a system destitute of any shadow of proof, and supported merely by vague analogies and figures of speech….Now no one pretends that they rest on facts actually observed, for no one has ever observed the production of even one species….Let the reader take up either of Darwin's great books, or Spencer's ‘Biology,’ and merely ask himself as he reads each paragraph, ‘What is assumed here and what is proved?’ and he will find the whole fabric melt away like a vision….We thus see that evolution as an hypothesis has no basis in experience or in scientific fact, and that its imagined series of transmutations has breaks which cannot be filled.” Sir William Dawson, The Story of Earth and Man. New York: Harper and Brothers, 1887, pp. 317, 322, 330, 339.</span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"Religion explains ultimate reality whereas evolution ends with the development of life AFTER it had already began"</span></em><br /><br />Of which you are unable to explain how it began, and when you're asked about it you say "evolution and abiogenesis are two different things". Mere dodge ball in my opinion.<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">Creationism begins with a preconceived conclusion (making it biased from the outset) & desperately tries to find facts to support it (failing miserably as EVERY shred of empirical evidence supports evolution)</span></em><br /><br />As does evolution. I have yet to debate any evolutionist who has not assumed right off the bat that the earth is millions of years old despite the contrary evidences. (ask, and I will be more than happy to provide you with evidence for a young earth) Even when soft dinosaur tissue and blood cells are presented to the skeptics, rather than say maybe dinosaurs aren't 65 million years old, they are busy trying to figure out how blood cells could have survided for millions of years??? And the latter portion of that statement is another assumption as EVERY shred of empirical evidence does not support evolution. The fossil record alone is of great embarrassment to your theory. Gary Parker said;<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">"Fossils are a great embarrassment to Evolutionary theory and offer strong support for the concept of Creation."</span></em> (Dr. Gary Parker, Ph.D., Biologist/paleontologist and former Evolutionist)<br /><br />Article; What does the fossil record teach us about evolution? - <a href="http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c006.html">http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c006.html</a><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"Evolution is also open to revision or even abandonment as new evidence comes to light unlike the stagnant & bigoted nature of creationism"</span></em><br /><br />This statement, yet again, is another one blindly stated by yourself. If this statement is true why are such information like Haeckel's Embryo drawings which were disproved in 1868 as fraudulent and even his own University held him on trial, still in text books? And what about Piltdown man and other supposed missing links that are still being portrayed in text books.? And Archeopteryx which was proven to be a bird from the beginning obtaining all the necessary components for flight already present. Why aren't these being "abandoned" once disproved? It seems as though your evolutionist just don't want to let them go.<br /><br /><em><strong><span style="color:#66ff99;"><u>Piltdown Man</u></span></strong><br />A piece of skull bone was found in 1912. Later, a jawbone was discovered nearby and said to be from the same creature as the skull piece. Evolutionists claimed that the skull had human features and the jaw was apelike, showing “proof” that apes evolved into man. Actually, the skull was human, but the jawbone was from an orangutan. The teeth had been filed down to make them look more human! Yet it took over 40 years before this hoax was disproved.</em><br /><br /><em><strong><span style="color:#66ff99;"><u>Archaeoraptor</u></span></strong><br />This more recent discovery was used to prove that dinosaurs evolved into birds. A Chinese farmer dug up pieces of fossil in two separate places, then pasted the pieces together. It was supposed to look like a dinosaur that was developing feathers. National Geographic magazine published this as proof of the evolutionary link between dinosaurs and birds. Later, the fossil was shown to be from two different animals.</em><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"Look up 'Tiktaalik' if you have trouble accepting there are any transitional forms between marine & land animals"</span></em><br /><br />The fact that you believe Tiktaalik to be a transitional form shows you are parakeeting information. This is a fish, it has gills, not lungs. Your faith is evident, you need to use your "imagination" to turn Tiktaalk into any other thing than a fish.<br /><br />consider what Dr. David Menton stated regarding this special fish<br /><br /><em><span style="color:#33ffff;">Many species of living fish are known to breathe air as well as slither on their bellies, with the help of their pectoral fins, across large expanses of land (evolutionists call this “walking”). For example, the northern snakehead and the “walking catfish” (Clarias batrachus) are air–breathing fish that can travel overland for considerable distances. The mudskippers are fish that breathe oxygen through their skin and “skip” along on land with the aid of their fleshy fins. The climbing perch (Anabas testudineus) not only breathes air and “walks” on land but is even capable of climbing trees! Yet none of these curious fish are considered by evolutionists to be ancestors of tetrapods—they are simply interesting and specialized fish.<br /><br />Whatever else we might say about Tiktaalik, it is a fish. In a review article on Tiktaalik (appearing in the same issue of the scientific journal Nature that reported the discovery of Tiktaalik), fish evolution experts, Ahlberg and Clack concede that “in some respects Tiktaalik and Panderichthys are straightforward fishes: they have small pelvic fins, retain fin rays in their paired appendages and have well-developed gill arches, suggesting that both animals remained mostly aquatic.”<br /><br />Without the author’s evolutionary bias, of course, there is no reason to assume that Tiktaalik was anything other than exclusively aquatic. And how do we know that Tiktaalik lost its gill cover as opposed to never having one? The longer snout and lack of bony gill covers (found in many other exclusively-aquatic living fish) are interpreted as indicating a reduced flow of water through the gills, which, in turn, is declared to be suggestive of partial air-breathing—but this is quite a stretch. Finally, what does any of this have to do with fish evolving into land dwelling tetrapods?<br /><br />"......we will see that there are no known fish with true “legs” (and certainly no feet), and none capable of actually “walking”—except in the most trivial sense of the word. "</span></em><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#ff6666;">"How many people do you know of that have killed in the name of evolution?"</span></em><br /><br /><p>For Starters,</p><br /><p><strong><u>Eric Auvinen:</u></strong></p><br />Just before last year’s shooting, killer Pekka-Eric Auvinen claimed online he would act as a “natural selector” to “eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race, and failures of natural selection.” He concluded, <em>"I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. . . . I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection. No, the truth is that I am just an animal, a human, an individual, a dissident </em><br /><br /><em>. . . . It’s time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!" </em>[emphasis in original]. He also called himself a “social Darwinist” and, during the massacre, wore a shirt that read, “humanity is overrated” in all-caps.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><p><strong><u>Matt Juhani Saari:</u></strong></p><br /><p>Shot and killed 10 people at a vocational college in the town of Kauhajoki, Finland. Cornered in by police, he shot himself and died later at a hospital. In all, Saari killed eight female students, one male student, and one male teacher, and also wounded a female student. <a class="linkExternal" href="http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,580128,00.html" target="_blank">Der Spiegel</a> reports that Saari “was apparently fascinated by the American students who shot up Columbine High School in 1999” in an article explaining how Saari had planned the shooting since 2002</p><br /><p><u><strong>Eric Harris & Dylan Klebold (Columbine Shooters):</strong></u></p><br /><p>The boys killed 12 students and a teacher, and wounded 23 others. Eric Harris wore a t-shirt that read "Natural Selection" on it. The boys made a video about a year or so before the shooting. In the video one of the boys, speaking of Isaiah Shoels, an african america athelete. <em><span style="color:#33ffff;">"look for his jaw (Isaiah Shoels) it won't be there, he doesn't deserve the jaw evolution gave him"</span></em> (paraphrased) The boys did the shooting on April 20th purposely because it was Hitler's birthday. </p><br /><p><strong><u>Hitler:</u></strong></p><br /><p>Hitler was full of evolutionary thinking. In his book "Mein Kampf" you can read all about his racist philosphy. Hitler also valued both Darwin’s and Nietzche’s books. When Hitler killed 6 million Jews, he was only doing what Darwin taught. </p><br /><p>*Adolf Hitler (1889-1945) was chancellor of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He carefully studied the writings of *Darwin and *Nietzsche. Hitler’s book, MeinKampf, was based on evolutionary theory (*Sir ArthurKeith, Evolution and Ethics, 1947, p. 28). The very title of the book (“My Struggle” [to survive and overcome]) was copied from a Darwinian expression. Hitler believed he was fulfilling evolutionary objectives by eliminating “undesirable individuals and inferior races” in order to produce Germany’s “Master Race” (*Larry Azar, Twen-tieth Century in Crisis, 1990, p. 180).<br /></p><p>Sir Arthur Keith was a British anthropologist, an atheistic evolutionist and an anti-Nazi, but he drew this chilling conclusion: <em>‘The German Führer, as I have consistently maintained, is an evolutionist; he has consciously sought to make the practice of Germany conform to the theory of evolution.’</em> </p><p><br />So though evolution is not to be blamed as the direct cause of these actions, it is to be noted for the influence it gave to these individuals.</p><p>Joe<br /></p><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"></span></em><br /><br /><br /><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"></span></em>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com11tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-30569580577489340452009-05-16T20:05:00.000-07:002009-06-30T19:45:10.397-07:00How Did Noah Fit All The "Species" On The Ark (Video)<div><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/Sg-AdEWJOVI/AAAAAAAAAto/Q3GCMrBspG8/s1600-h/ships-tn.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5336625320328509778" style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; WIDTH: 320px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 124px" alt="" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/Sg-AdEWJOVI/AAAAAAAAAto/Q3GCMrBspG8/s320/ships-tn.jpg" border="0" /></a><br /><u><span style="color:#ff6666;">How Did Noah Fit All The "Species" On The Ark</span></u><br /><br />Whenever I debate people, this question is always sure to follow. It's actually quite a good question. The only problem is the individuals presuppositions when asking it. You see, the media has fed many the notion and picture of an overcrowded small boat with various animals such as the Giraffe with his/her head hanging over the rail. However, nothing could have been further from the truth. Listen in as Eric Hovind shows that while today's scientist refer to the many diverse animal groups as "species" God always referred to them as "kinds" If one studies the dimensions of the ark - you can see that it had more than enough room to support the original "kinds" and Noah's family.<br /><br /><br /><br /><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/y-qJUEvCTt0&hl=" fs="1" width="425" height="344" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed></div>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com2tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-517559575802799334.post-65222761619814434912009-05-16T18:42:00.000-07:002009-09-29T18:45:10.110-07:00‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.’ - The James claims<a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SsJAFfq0m-I/AAAAAAAAA00/batEZjZ9XiE/s1600-h/ossuary_1014.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5386938567433165794" style="FLOAT: right; MARGIN: 0px 0px 10px 10px; WIDTH: 307px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 200px" alt="" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SsJAFfq0m-I/AAAAAAAAA00/batEZjZ9XiE/s320/ossuary_1014.jpg" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><div><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SsI_9SJEBII/AAAAAAAAA0s/AgWqHEQ5xh4/s1600-h/JamesOssuaryInscription-1-.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5386938426362954882" style="DISPLAY: block; MARGIN: 0px auto 10px; WIDTH: 320px; CURSOR: hand; HEIGHT: 261px; TEXT-ALIGN: center" alt="" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lr4y5PDV5Mw/SsI_9SJEBII/AAAAAAAAA0s/AgWqHEQ5xh4/s320/JamesOssuaryInscription-1-.jpg" border="0" /></a><br /><br /><br /><div><br /><br /><br /><div><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"><span style="color:#cccccc;">Excerpt</span>;</span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"></span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">Time magazine said that if the inscription refers to ‘the right James’ it would be ‘the most important discovery in the history of New Testament archaeology.’</span></em></strong><a name="f4"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r4"><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">4</span></em></strong></a><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"> The magazine also stated, ‘<u><span style="color:#ff6666;">Almost no educated person these days doubts that Jesus lived</span></u>.’</span></em></strong><a name="f5"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r5"><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;">5</span></em></strong></a><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"> It went further by quoting Hershel Shanks, editor of the liberal Biblical Archaeology Review, as conceding (remarkably, for a Jewish writer): ‘[This ossuary] is something tactile and visible reaching back to the single most important personage ever to walk the earth.’</span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"></span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#66ffff;"></span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;">here's an excellent article from AiG - it's an old one but something many people aren't aware of. This should greatly encourage those who don't compromise the word of God and hold it to be the inerrant Word of the Living God. An ossuary on which was inscribed, in Aramaic, the words ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' was found back in 2002. For those who doubt Jesus even existed, I beg you to be open minded and consider the huge implications of this if it's true.</span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;"></span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;">Im slightly reminded of what Lee Strobel said long ago - "One thing Christianity has on it's side.........Truth!"</span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;"></span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;">Enjoy the article everyone.</span></em></strong><br /><strong><em><span style="color:#cccccc;"></span></em></strong><br /><span style="font-size:130%;color:#ff6666;"><u>The James Claims</u></span><br /><u><span style="font-size:130%;"></span></u><br />For the 1,500 years after they occupied their promised land, Israelites were buried in graves dug in the ground or tombs cut out of the rock. But between about 20 BC and AD 70, a different form of burial was popular. Bodies were buried or interred until the flesh disintegrated, then the bones were collected and placed in an ossuary (bone box).<br /><br />Many such ossuaries have been discovered. In recent times an ossuary was discovered on which was an inscription bearing the name of Caiaphas, the High Priest who presided over the trial of Jesus Christ. It is for now in the Israel Museum in Jerusalem. That was quite a spectacular discovery, but now an even more spectacular discovery has been made—an ossuary on which was inscribed, in Aramaic, the words ‘James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.’<br /><br />Actually, this ossuary is said to have been in the possession of an Israeli for a number of years. He says he purchased it from an Arab antiquities dealer in Jerusalem for US$400 (it is now estimated to be worth about US$2 million). But he took no interest in the inscription engraved on the side of the ossuary. Being Israeli, no doubt he could read it—but the names held no great significance for him. He stated, ‘I didn’t know that Jesus had a brother.’<a name="f1"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r1">1</a><br /><br />However, in mid-2002, Professor André Lemaire of Paris, a specialist in ancient inscriptions, happened to meet the owner and see the ossuary. Lemaire was startled to read the words engraved on the side of the box.<br /><br />Critics have been quick to point out that Joseph, James (Jacob in Hebrew) and Jesus (Joshua/Yeshua in Hebrew) were common names in the time of Christ, and therefore it does not prove that this Jesus was Jesus Christ, the founder of the Christian religion. One critic even suggested that there could have been 20 men by the name of Jesus, whose father was Joseph and who had a brother named Jacob (James), living in Jerusalem at the time, but what the critics are ignoring is the unique nature of this wording.<br /><br />It was common for the name of the deceased to be written on his ossuary, and in some cases the father’s name was added, but this is the only known case of one of the deceased’s brothers being named. The fact that James’s brother is added, and that the brother’s name is Jesus, is just too much of a coincidence for it to be lightly dismissed. Obviously, this brother of James was a well-known or significant figure, and Jesus Christ certainly fits that scenario.<br /><br />In fact, it seems so perfect that the antiquity of the writing has been questioned. Perhaps some well-meaning Christian (or not so well-meaning forger) did the engraving in recent times? But archaeologists have a way of testing such inscriptions—after all, this would not be the first time a forgery has been attempted. The curvature of the writing and the scratch marks of the chisel can be tested to determine its antiquity. The patina (incrustation accumulated over centuries of time) testifies to its antiquity. According to the experts, the present inscription stands up well to these tests, and the patina is even present in the lettering of the inscription.<br /><br />According to a Sydney Morning Herald report, Dr Lawrence Stager, Professor of Archaeology at Harvard University, who excavated the dog cemetery in Ashkelon, stated that: ‘It will be extremely important if it’s authentic. Everything that they’ve put in this non-technical article seems to point in that direction.’ He added that if the discovery proved genuine it would have a big impact on the debate over how accurately Christian texts depicted the life of Jesus, and would force scholars to take the New Testament more seriously.<br /><br />It is hardly realistic to question the historical existence of Jesus Christ. It would be hard to explain the existence of the early Christian church if Jesus was a mythical figure, but some continue to raise that possibility. Professor Stager points out that ‘You’ll never prove or disprove the miracles of Jesus, but to give him an actual authentic setting of place and person is no small accomplishment.’<br /><br />According to <a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=MAT+13:55&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">Matthew 13:55</a>, Jesus had some sisters and four brothers, ‘James, Joses, Simon and Judas,’ which, in Hebrew, would have been Jacob, Joseph, Simeon and Judah. His brothers once tried to pressure Jesus into going to Jerusalem, scornfully suggesting, ‘If you do these things, show yourself to the world’ (<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOH+7:3&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">John 7:3</a>).<br /><br />Jesus performed no miracles before he left home to start his ministry, and <a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JOH+7:5&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">John 7:5</a> states that ‘his brothers did not believe in him.’ However, according to the Apostle Paul, Jesus appeared to James after He rose from the dead (<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1CO+15:7&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">1 Corinthians 15:7</a>), and apparently this resulted in James’s conversion. He seems to have become the head of the early Christian church, since he delivered the judgment of the church’s council in Jerusalem. After a lengthy discussion about the church’s attitude to the Gentiles, James said, ‘I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God’ (<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ACT+15:19&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">Acts 15:19</a>).<br /><br />Josephus wrote that the High Priest ‘assembled the Sanhedrin of the judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others [or some of his companions;] and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned.’<a name="f2"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r2">2</a><br /><br />When Stephen was stoned to death, ‘devout men carried Stephen to his burial’ (<a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=ACT+8:2&language=english&version=KJV&showfn=on" target="_blank">Acts 8:2</a>). The same could have happened with James. Devout men may have removed his body and interred it in a tomb, later to deposit his bones in the ossuary which has now come to light. What has happened to his bones is irrelevant. An antiquities dealer would have no interest in bones, though some dust and bone chips still lie at the bottom of the ossuary.<a name="f3"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r3">3</a><br /><br />In any case, the discovery is so spectacular that the Toronto Museum immediately negotiated with the owner, who agreed to put it on display at the museum. Unfortunately, it was not properly packed for the journey, and when it arrived, it was found to have suffered a number of large cracks, which experts are now frantically trying to rectify.<br /><br />Time magazine said that if the inscription refers to ‘the right James’ it would be ‘the most important discovery in the history of New Testament archaeology.’<a name="f4"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r4">4</a> The magazine also stated, ‘Almost no educated person these days doubts that Jesus lived.’<a name="f5"></a><a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i2/james.asp#r5">5</a> It went further by quoting Hershel Shanks, editor of the liberal Biblical Archaeology Review, as conceding (remarkably, for a Jewish writer): ‘[This ossuary] is something tactile and visible reaching back to the single most important personage ever to walk the earth.’<br /><br />Despite the importance of this find to Biblical Christianity, we are not suggesting that artifacts should be used to try to ‘prove’ the Bible. Historical (forensic) sciences like archaeology have immense value, but, like attempts at evolutionary reconstruction of the past, they are greatly limited. Much depends on the bias and starting beliefs of the researcher. Those who take God at His word will be encouraged, but not surprised, whenever evidence comes to light to confirm the reliable, historical accounts of the Bible.</div></div></div>Joe Siriannihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07596993325094868267noreply@blogger.com0